Curse

CagedinSanity · Feb 16, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Even if they kick me in the balls, I'm one of those who actually support nerfs (except the occasional one or two...) because it forces people to think on how they're going to use said skill(s), As CDittric77 mentioned.

Mesmer in Need · Feb 16, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Ive never played a paragon, never had one on my team. but i know the skills and... 3 sec incoming? god give ur whammo watch yourself. wy> paragon right now imo.

Hephaestus Ram · Feb 17, 2007, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

This whole discussion goes back to a fundamental problem with players...They don't want what they don't understand.

The whole idea that an entire profession is shot down because one skill got nerfed is ridiculous.

People have started playing with certain combo's to cover up for general lack of tactics. Are you an SF nuker? If not, we dont want you...

Even protection monks are often misunderstood in PvE...can you also take some heal?, they ask...

Ritu, can you go restoration? If you answer no, you are likely to get kicked.

People fail at missions many times because they don't know how to do it, they don't learn from their failure. And guess what? They blame the skills...or specific classes.

Even for normal missions, people have ideas of what they want and don't want in a team. Ane ele has to be a nuker, a warrior has to be a tank, a necro is MM or SS...heaven forbid he uses blood magic (except BiP in elite missions and DoA of course). Why all of this? Because there is a very limited supply of builds that are so powerful at a specific thing that even the biggest idiot can finish a mission with a group like that. Skills over skill, if you get my drift...

I have a paragon and it does just fine even now. It doesn't die so quickly actually and in normal PvE staying on your feet is a good thing...don't bash it cause you don't get it...

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think that's the issue here.
The fact is that the paragon only has a handful of decent skills, and most
of them have been "tweaked" to the point of barely useful.

I have a paragon too, and I can get through any of the three campaigns
with him ok. But if I had to select one character from my eight to take
into a tough mission or quest, because of his hobbled skills, he'd be
the last I'd select. I just don't think that he's able to carry his weight the
way things are right now. I think even the assassin who I've never even
gotten into a PUG with is more effective than the paragon is right now.

Not that there's anything wrong with the assassin. It's one of my favorite
classes, but I had to do the entire chapter with henches.

Deleet · Feb 17, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need

Ive never played a paragon, never had one on my team. but i know the skills and... 3 sec incoming? god give ur whammo watch yourself. wy> paragon right now imo.

Paragons usually also have watch yourself as it fuels their energy for more expensive chants etc..

wetsparks · Feb 17, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

This whole discussion goes back to a fundamental problem with players...They don't want what they don't understand.

The whole idea that an entire profession is shot down because one skill got nerfed is ridiculous.

People have started playing with certain combo's to cover up for general lack of tactics. Are you an SF nuker? If not, we dont want you...

Even protection monks are often misunderstood in PvE...can you also take some heal?, they ask...

Ritu, can you go restoration? If you answer no, you are likely to get kicked.

People fail at missions many times because they don't know how to do it, they don't learn from their failure. And guess what? They blame the skills...or specific classes.

Even for normal missions, people have ideas of what they want and don't want in a team. Ane ele has to be a nuker, a warrior has to be a tank, a necro is MM or SS...heaven forbid he uses blood magic (except BiP in elite missions and DoA of course). Why all of this? Because there is a very limited supply of builds that are so powerful at a specific thing that even the biggest idiot can finish a mission with a group like that. Skills over skill, if you get my drift...

I have a paragon and it does just fine even now. It doesn't die so quickly actually and in normal PvE staying on your feet is a good thing...don't bash it cause you don't get it...

That is going on in this forum, when bashing Paragons people assume that all Paragons use Incoming, and "how can an elite only last for 3 seconds?"
Ensign earlier posted average damage output of all classes, but Paragon can also use Mighty Throw every other attack because it has a two adrenaline recharge which gives +34 damage at 12 spear. I use it at 15 spear, without a max damage spear, and regularly do over 50 damage and sometimes into the 70s.
Combine that with Song of Restoration that gives 78 health to an ally at 12 motivation every 15 seconds just for using a skill, and that is a powerful boost to the monks in the group.
Compare that to an ele that uses Heal Party to help monks, Heal Party gives out 67 life at 12 healing for three times the energy.
So to recap, high damage output, good heal buff, hard rez and Paragons are definitely still useful.

Polarhound · Feb 21, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Problem is that those 2 skills are quickly becoming the only skills worth anything in the whole profession. Any nerfs to these 2 and it's all over. Usual bar has those 2, anthem of flame(to keep up aggressive) and bunch of spear attacks(not that they are good, but you are specced in this thing anyway, might as well use them).

I'm running a P/W through now, currently at Desolation, and almost all with heroes/henchies only.

My skill bar:
For Great Justice!
Stand Your Ground!
Anthem of Flame
Go For The Eyes!
Aggressive Refrain
Never Surrender!
Cautery Signet
Signet of Return

Once engaged in a fight, I end up hitting GFTE around once per second with FGJ and Aggressive Refrain running. I don't even have to use Make Your Time to get enough adren going. Hell.. I don't have a single point in Spear Mastery! My spears do little to no damage, but I don't need them to... My goal is to do my damage through my 7+ allies and pull all conditions off them in tough fights.

Katari · Feb 21, 2007, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Generic Spear/Leadership/Command para

12+1+2 Spear
10+2 Leadership
8+1 Command

Spear of Lighting
Cruel Spear
*Spear Attack
*Support Skill
Agressive Refrain
Resurect
Anthem of Flame
"GFtE!"

DPS on par with a warrior, some support/utility potential. Works great for PvE.

I don't really see a good reason to neglect spear mastery at all. Sure, "GFTE!" is a nice damage buff, but it gets nicer the more people you have that can take advantage of it.

Darksun · Feb 21, 2007, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Wasn't the reason they nerfed the para because an All-Paragon group was too powerful in PvP?

It seemes like the Nerf was done in the wrong way. Shouldn't they have limited the effectiveness of the skills in a group with too many paragons? I mean, it seems like they should have fixed it at the problem instead of just blowing out it's kneecaps..